My husband is currently discerning the Catholic permanent deaconate, which is only about 60 years old or so. Prior to Vatican II (or right after...?) the only deacons were transitional deacons. I'm pretty sure that Anglo-Catholic/Orthodox-adjacent/high church Anglicanism is substantially older than that.
You said that you're discerning being a "long time" deacon...does that mean that you'll eventually end up an Anglican priest? Or is there a permanent deaconate in Anglicanism?
Is the cassock optional, or mandatory? (Catholic deacons don't wear them, it's just our priests who get to. Life isn't fair).
This one is more for your wife-- does she undergo formation as well? What type? Does her position in your parish/community change post ordination?
There. I probably gave you material for a least a couple more posts there...sorry, lol.
Solid questions! And maybe I will end up exploring these once I have the ontology and function of the deacon ironed out. But I can give some preliminary answers!
The diaconate has fluctuated in Anglicanism similar to in Roman Catholicism. In fact, I think when VII started it, in 1968 the CoE renewed their permanent diaconate. I think the ACNA has permanent deacons, and my understanding is that the REC is making provisions for a permanent diaconate in our Canons. So, we probably aren't as far off from each other as one might think.
Yes, I do discern that God is ultimately calling me to the priesthood, but between my clergy, my wife, and my own interior sense, the timing doesn't seem right. I have a healthy career, our kids are going into middle school, and this isn't time to upset the applecart as priestly ministry would likely be full time, my pay is going to change, scheduling become erratic, and on and on it goes. Additionally, I have a sense that because of the ontological connection amongst the three orders, there is something fundamental to priesthood that requires a firm grasp on diaconal ministry, and I sense a call to try and help articulate what that means and looks like. I see each order as specialized trades within a large, common trade, and no one learns a trade thoroughly in 12-24 months. You've got to sit in it for a while, and so I will do so before switching "specialties." I can't shake the feeling that something important to priesthood is missed by a swift diaconate but I won't know until I'm in it and have a feel for it.
As far as I'm aware, the cassock is optional. It's always the base vestment for service in the liturgy, but my understanding is that clericals/cassock are interchangeable for non-liturgical functions and service.
My wife doesn't receive "formal" formation, I suppose, but she has been included in many of my postulancy meetings and does receive instruction and support for what is to come as a clergy family. Her role in the parish is up to her: nothing is required officially, although peoples' perceptions and expectations will likely change and we will have to navigate that. She can have as much or as little programmatic involvement as she desires.
I don't have any urgency to leave behind my parish, my clergy, or my tradition (not to mention the relationships we've invested in and community we've built as a family in the parish). I am not compelled or convinced by uniquely Roman Catholic dogmatic claims and cannot honestly subscribe to them as de fide.
Put another way, the English liturgy as instantiated in the American 1928, the American Missal, etc. aren't just an aesthetic that I like or the sole reason that I worship as an Anglican. It's not nothing, but it's not everything either. There are doctrinal and theological reasons for me to stay faithful to the Anglican branch of Christ's Church.
In one sense, they are the same in terms of descent from the Church of England. In another sense, they are different: Episcopalianism has grown quite liberal, both socially and theologically, although there remain some catholic-minded orthodox Episcopalians, whereas Anglicanism tends to be used in reference to those bodies that find a common root in the CoE but have left TEC to start conservative jurisdictions (e.g. Anglican Church in North America, Reformed Episcopal Church, Anglican Province of America, Anglican Catholic Church, etc.).
Same with Catholic deacons. My grandfather was a permanent deacon in the Catholic Church, so there’s definitely some similarities between us Catholics and our Anglican brothers in that respect.
As an Anglican deacon, I enjoyed this and look forward to reading more!
I have lots of questions, and they're all nerdy.
My husband is currently discerning the Catholic permanent deaconate, which is only about 60 years old or so. Prior to Vatican II (or right after...?) the only deacons were transitional deacons. I'm pretty sure that Anglo-Catholic/Orthodox-adjacent/high church Anglicanism is substantially older than that.
You said that you're discerning being a "long time" deacon...does that mean that you'll eventually end up an Anglican priest? Or is there a permanent deaconate in Anglicanism?
Is the cassock optional, or mandatory? (Catholic deacons don't wear them, it's just our priests who get to. Life isn't fair).
This one is more for your wife-- does she undergo formation as well? What type? Does her position in your parish/community change post ordination?
There. I probably gave you material for a least a couple more posts there...sorry, lol.
Solid questions! And maybe I will end up exploring these once I have the ontology and function of the deacon ironed out. But I can give some preliminary answers!
The diaconate has fluctuated in Anglicanism similar to in Roman Catholicism. In fact, I think when VII started it, in 1968 the CoE renewed their permanent diaconate. I think the ACNA has permanent deacons, and my understanding is that the REC is making provisions for a permanent diaconate in our Canons. So, we probably aren't as far off from each other as one might think.
Yes, I do discern that God is ultimately calling me to the priesthood, but between my clergy, my wife, and my own interior sense, the timing doesn't seem right. I have a healthy career, our kids are going into middle school, and this isn't time to upset the applecart as priestly ministry would likely be full time, my pay is going to change, scheduling become erratic, and on and on it goes. Additionally, I have a sense that because of the ontological connection amongst the three orders, there is something fundamental to priesthood that requires a firm grasp on diaconal ministry, and I sense a call to try and help articulate what that means and looks like. I see each order as specialized trades within a large, common trade, and no one learns a trade thoroughly in 12-24 months. You've got to sit in it for a while, and so I will do so before switching "specialties." I can't shake the feeling that something important to priesthood is missed by a swift diaconate but I won't know until I'm in it and have a feel for it.
As far as I'm aware, the cassock is optional. It's always the base vestment for service in the liturgy, but my understanding is that clericals/cassock are interchangeable for non-liturgical functions and service.
My wife doesn't receive "formal" formation, I suppose, but she has been included in many of my postulancy meetings and does receive instruction and support for what is to come as a clergy family. Her role in the parish is up to her: nothing is required officially, although peoples' perceptions and expectations will likely change and we will have to navigate that. She can have as much or as little programmatic involvement as she desires.
Thanks for asking these great question, Emily!
Out of curiosity, why not join the Ordinariate?
It's a fair question.
I don't have any urgency to leave behind my parish, my clergy, or my tradition (not to mention the relationships we've invested in and community we've built as a family in the parish). I am not compelled or convinced by uniquely Roman Catholic dogmatic claims and cannot honestly subscribe to them as de fide.
Put another way, the English liturgy as instantiated in the American 1928, the American Missal, etc. aren't just an aesthetic that I like or the sole reason that I worship as an Anglican. It's not nothing, but it's not everything either. There are doctrinal and theological reasons for me to stay faithful to the Anglican branch of Christ's Church.
Here for this. Also, remembering the time we met and I asked if you were Catholic.... you weren't even wearing a cassock.
😂 I do remember that, that’s hilarious. I guess I just give off Catholic vibes, which, hey, I accept it.
But yeah we’ll see how this shapes up. Seems like a good flagship series for the Stack, though.
Well you definitely do give off an Anglo-Catholic vibe, in a good way. C.S. Lewis did too, and you remind me of him. 🙂
One question I do have: what is the difference between Anglicans and Episcopalians in the USA?
In one sense, they are the same in terms of descent from the Church of England. In another sense, they are different: Episcopalianism has grown quite liberal, both socially and theologically, although there remain some catholic-minded orthodox Episcopalians, whereas Anglicanism tends to be used in reference to those bodies that find a common root in the CoE but have left TEC to start conservative jurisdictions (e.g. Anglican Church in North America, Reformed Episcopal Church, Anglican Province of America, Anglican Catholic Church, etc.).
Thanks for that primer!
Do you get to wear a cool hat as well? 😉
Alas! Cool hats don’t come until the priesthood.
Same with Catholic deacons. My grandfather was a permanent deacon in the Catholic Church, so there’s definitely some similarities between us Catholics and our Anglican brothers in that respect.